penalty. vollmer wins gold but jordyn wieber is knocked out before the finals. ker kerri strug will join us this morning. "starting point" begins right now. >> welcome back, our starting point this morning, mitt romney on his way to poland after his welcome strip welcome trip to israel. here's what he said. >> we must not delude ourselves into thinking containment is an option. we must lead the effort to prevent iran from building and possessing nuclear weapons capability. we should employ any and all measures to dissuade the iranian regime from its nuclear course. no option should be excluded. we recognize israel's right to defend itself and that it is

right for america to stand with you. >> mitt romney trailing in polls when they are asked which candidate would handle foreign policy better. it's a critical time for him to recover from what some say were big gaffes made in britain. michelle is the co-chair of the obama campaign's national security committee and former defense secretary under president obama and in the situation room during the osama bin laden raid. nice to see you. thank you for talking us with this morning. do you see a big difference between mitt romney's foreign policy stance when it comes to iran and president obama's foreign policy stance when it comes to iran? they both talked about no option being off the table. >> there really isn't that much substantive difference, soledad. the president has made clear his policy is to prevent iran from gaining a nuclear weapon and that all options are on the table. right now we're focused on imposing the most crippling sanctions in the history of any

country. those are tightening the screws on iran's economy and we hope it will change the catalyst with regard to the nuclear program. >> we want to read what mitt romney said about the arab spring and lack of stability in the middle east. he said president george w. bush urged hosni mubarak to move toward a more democratic post tour but president obama abandoned the freedom agenda and we're seeing a whirlwind of tur molt because the nations did not em grace the reforms that could have changed the course of their his tri in a more peaceful manner. what do you make of that comment? >> i think this is a great example of romney sort of using foreign policy as a way to mischaracterize the president's record. i think from the president's cairo speech all the way through his actions during the egyptian revolution, it's been clear which side the united states is

on and that is on the side of democracy and freedom. what romney fails to do each and every time is really layout how his policy would be different. what specifically would he do differently and we haven't heard from him on those issues. the american people frankly deserve to know that. >> we know now there was a contingency plan shared with attacking iran if any kind of diplomacy should fail and looks like they are getting a nuclear weapon. some people have said that is purely politics and especially the timing is suspicious considering it comes at the moment when governor romney is making his way to make headlines in israel. >> well, i think again, president obama has made very clear that all options are on the table. what romney seems to be doing is grabbing at straws and trying to make an impression on his foreign trip. frankly with the gaffes in london and performance in

israel, i think this trip raised more doubts. is he really ready to represent the united states abroad? is he really ready to be commander in chief? is he really ready to lead on the global stage? i think this trip and his performance has raised more questions than its answered frankly. >> some of that was part of what i was asking was is the timing suspicious, especially and is it set to undermine what he is trying to do in israel? >> it is actually. and it's particularly striking when you contrast the nature of this trip, which has been very political, very focused on fund raising and statements and so forth. with president obama's trip, where first and foremost, he went to see the troops in harm's way in iraq and afghanistan, understanding the importance of that stew ardship role as commander in chief. he laid out a very substantive agenda and set of policies for the american people so they

would know if he became president what he would do. we haven't heard that from mitt romney on this trip. >> we heard the president committing 70 million on the trip. is that again to undermine and undercut whatever he's going to do? >> no, it's really not. congress finally passed the legislation. this was the president's first opportunity to have a signing ceremony. and underscore the very strong, really unprecedented level of support and assistance that this administration provided to israel's security. >> one of the things we'll talk about is the new cover of "newsweek." can we throw that up on the screen, guys? >> it asks, is about the wimp factor, a big picture of mitt romney and the author's premise is that maybe mitt romney is too much of a wimp, his words, certainly not mine. what do you think of that cover? >> i'm not going to get into any name calling. what i can say president obama's

record, if you look at the facts as opposed to the miss characterizations, it stands for itself. he's one of the strongest national security presidents we have had ever had whether it's its his performance on ending the iraq war, setting up transition in afghanistan, bringing osama bin laden to justice. the list goes on. that record stands for itself. >> that's a complete dodge because i didn't ask anything about that. i ask about the cover but i understand. thanks for joining us, we appreciate your time. >> thank you very much. >> coming up, we'll get reaction from the gop senator john mccain will join us and new hampshire senator kelly ayotta will join us as well. we'll talk to the author of "newsweek" who wrote that piece. other stories to get to. zoraida sambolin has a look at the other stories. >> the man accused of the

colorado movie theater massacre will face formal charges in court. he made an appearance in court last week where he seemed dazed and did not speak. cnn's jim spellman joins us live from centennial, colorado. what can we expect today, jim? >> reporter: well, well, zoraida, we will not see television cameras in the courtroom today. in four and a half hours he's going to make his way from the jail through an underground tunnel into the court. we expect him to be formally charged with 12 counts of first degree murder. and numerous counts of attempted first degree murder and other charges likely around the booby trapped apartment he set up as he went off to do this shooting at the movie theater. zoraida? >> let's of talk about the death penalty. any decision on that? >> reporter: that will come down the road. they have to take into account what the victims want to have and all of the evidence in the case. when they get to that point, but

they tell me they would be shocked if the da does not go for the death penalty. >> jim spellman, thank you for that. next hour, remembering the victims of the colorado movie theater massacre, including 32-year-old rebecca's mother will join us live. people chanting, tell the truth during a protest over recent police shootings in the city. police say they arrested two people when a peaceful protest started to take a turn yesterday. the demonstrations follow the fatal shootings of two men this month by police. his relationship with president obama has been rocky but former president bill clinton will play a major role at the democratic convention in charlotte. an aide confirms that clinton will deliver a key prime time speech and on september 7th, the final night of the convention, president obama will accept the

nomination. soledad? >> all right, zoraida. blown leads and world records and tears part of the team usa story. leading the medal count is china with 12, the united states right behind with 11. italy is in third place. let's get right to amanda davies in london. good morning to you. gosh, the big story has got to be this gymnast, jordyn wieber, misqualifying because of the rule that only allows two to make if into the next level. talk to me about that first. >> reporter: there's a lot of americans feeling hard about this this morning but the rules is the rules and that's it, bottom line. and sadly for jordyn wieber, she finished beneath gabby douglas and ally raisman. she won't be able to go for the

goal that she trained s eed so for. it was walking through the zone after the event, team mates wanted to celebrate that they performed well but they had one of their teammates who they trained against who was obviously absolutely devastated and had obviously been crying. ail little bit later on jordyn tweeted, thank you for your love and support, i'm so proud of our team today and can't wait for the team finals. she will be taking part in the team finals and be able to go for gold on her own in the floor event on august the 7th. not the end of jordyn wieber's olympic campaign but it's certainly not the start she was hoping for. >> it was so sad. sad to see her crying while her teammates were trying to cheer for themselves. there were some reports that were set yesterday, tell me about that. >> reporter: yeah, it was a pretty good day for the usa women in the pool, not so good

for the men. they had to settle for silver. it was france who beat the men to the gold medal. but dana vollmer, took the gold medal and set a new world record. she's been working for after the last eight years after claiming a team gold in athens in 2004. then we've also got to congratulate kim rhode taking part in the shooting event, the skeet, which not many people have necessarily heard of it. it was a great day for her. she is the first u.s. athlete to have won medals in five successive olympic games. >> i would think with skeet shooting, you have a career forever, right? you should be able to do that when you're 70 if you want to. >> reporter: i suppose you do. it's not something i'm particularly good at, not so hot with guns but i suppose you don't have to move anywhere

particularly. i don't know whether she'll make it to another five games, that's quite something. >> we'll watch for that. we appreciate that. coming up later in this hour, we'll talk to olympic great kerri strug about the gymnastics and that incredible upset. that's going to be straight ahead. our get real this morning, talk about a couple denied their dream wedding because they are black. you're watching "starting point." we're back in just a moment.

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welcome back, minding your business this morning, u.s. markets deflating after the big rally last week. stock futures are all trading lower right now. apple and sam sung take their patent war to a federal court in california thd. they've been fighting since apple sued samsung last year claiming smartphones and tablets ripped off the iphone and ipad. samsung accuses apple of infringing on its patents and

stifling competition. the dark knight took the top spot raking in $64 million. it has made $537 million, that is worldwide. soledad, back to you. >> we told you earlier about mitt romney's trip to poland for the final leg of his overseas tour, his stop before this in israel is where he took a strong stance on iran, appeared almost hawkish, he said tehran must be halted in its ability to create nuclear weapons and the senior foreign aids. "newsweek" magazine is covering romney a wimp, the wimp factor is the cover title. the article was written by michael tan as ski, the editor of a quarterly journal

publication. what's your definition of a wimp? >> well, as the second instructive word on the cover says, somebody who's insecurity in the positions he takes and way he presents himself as a candidate. i see this up and down. i saw it this weekend on the surface, the speech in israel sounded like a real tough speech and headlines say tough talk and so on and so on. you said it yourself. what the speech actually was was him pandering to the right right base in america and israel and saying every word that would absolutely please them and not a single sylla balance that would dilease them. we remember all of the flip-flops on the most important issues of our time. what sort of person that? >> you think the flip-flop sg what defines somebody as a wimp. i want to read from your article. the episode highlights what's really wrong with romney, he's

kind of lame and really annoying and keeps saying these incredibly off-key things and apologizes with all of the sincerity of a hostage. he never mans up, double down and take his lumps. that's from the article. your assessment doesn't focus on for a voter or potential voter, not really about the policy, not really how he was wimpy in thinks political stance in massachusetts or fighting to get health care in that state or wimpy in his business at bain. do you think you create a strong argument for the wimp factor as opposed to a personal attack framed around the wimp factor? >> there are some person quirks that he has that are highlighted in that paragraph you read. farther down in the article and heart of the piece and i say this in the piece, it centers on the positions that he takes, the way he has up and downered so consistently on important,

important issues, issues on which we'd like to see our politicians have some kind of consistency, some kind of back bone. he's repeatedly just changed positions completely and up and downered totally to the right wing. when rush limbaugh says jump, he says how high. i think it's a fair question to ask, is this the kind of person we want to see in the white house? >> he said this when he was asked what was his reaction to your story, he said this. i want to play a little bit. >> if i worried about what the media said i wouldn't get much sleep and i'm able to sleep pretty well. >> meaning he doesn't care about it at all. do you think he should worry about it? do you think when it comes to the election that that is going to potentially have a big -- play a big role, potentially be a factor. >> i'd like to say yes, i don't know. i can't control those things. the obama campaign as we know is not really highlighting anything like this. they are not really making his

flip-flops his character and issue, they are talking about bain and his financial history and so on. but they are not really making this aspect of his character an issue, which is probably a little bit of a mistake and could persuade swing voters there's not much to this guy. >> in 1987 there was a similar cover story and she described president bush -- it was called fighting the wimp factor and here's what robert o'brien said, a romney campaign adviser, "newsweek" was beyond silly quh it called naval aviator george h.w. bush a wimp. the fact is mitt romney is a steely nerved businessman that turned around failed companies and corruption plagued 2002 olympic winter games. not only do you have it wrong,

you have it completely wrong and picking examples of wimpiness that they would take exception too. >> i did say in the article that george h.w. bush was a war hero and "newsweek" was probably not a wimp. okay, a steely minded businessman? well, yeah, he saved some companies. bain has also not saved some companies as we know very well. look, i want to return to the main point. he is wishy washy on most of the most important issues of the day on pro-life versus pro-choice, on immigration, used to support a path to amnesty. >> politicians as you and i both know, if we had a dollar for every politician who changed his position on an issue, we could both retire. >> one or two issues, sure.

not six. not seven, not the most important issues, not every single one of the most important issues of our time. >> we are out of time. thanks for speaking with us, the article is called -- let's throw up the cover story from "newsweek," the wimp factor and asking the question is mitt romney a wimp. we have to take a short break. still ahead, it was supposed to be one of the happiest days of their life but they were denied their dream wedding because they are black. our "starting point" team is heading in to talk about that, margaret hoover leading the way, ryan lizza and lenny cruz with us. here's lenny's playlist. >> i heard this song a million times. how are you? nice to see you. this is "we are young." who sings this? that's a few names longer. you see us bank on busier highways. on once empty fields. everyday you see all the ways all of us at us bank

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welcome back to "starting point," a couple of headlines to tell you about, illinois congressman jesse jackson jr. is being evaluated for depression and also said to be suffering from gastrointestinal issue u.s. the son of reverend jesse jackson hasn't been on capitol hill for two months. u.s. safety officials are investigating engine problems on the new 787 dreamliners jets after debris fell from the plane and caused a grass fire at charleston in south carolina. that is according to the "l.a. times" and other papers. it has been hit with several glitches. >> yikes. our team joins us, lenny, the

last time i saw you was -- we really saw each other for the rst time when the show started in florida. >> nice to see you. >> nice and cool. >> only 100 today, you'll be fine. >> margaret hoover is with us, former white house appoint ee in the bush administration. ryan lizza has a new piece out today, it's a profile of paul ryan and it's called fuss budget. we're going to be talking about that piece i think tomorrow. do they show you the art work they are going to do ahead of time? >> they do, yeah. >> don't always show the art work on the cover? >> that's true. >> that's always a surprise at times. our get real, this is such a sad story because i was reading this story along with an article that talked about had race relations improved under a black president. this is a story of charles and tee an dra wilson, planning their dream wedding for months.

wanted to get ready in crystal springs mississippi, date was set and maimed the invitations, the day before the wedding, the pastor says several members of the church are having a problem with having black people married at the church. this had never been done here before so it was setting a new precedent and there were those who reacted to that. >> isn't that unbelievable? you have a church that never had a black wedding in it. >> in mississippi where there are a lot of black people. >> still segregated. we talk about the wimp factor, this was a wimp. the leader of the church, some of the congress gants went to the pastor and said, we don't know exactly what they said but whatever they said, they were uncomfortable with the wedding and he was the one that went to the couple and said maybe we should do it somewhere else. >> his job as the pastor to come -- to tell these people, you guys are wrong, come on.

>> to not buckle to the discrimination and bigotry. >> and pastor weatherford. >> the few don't speak for the church. >> some of the quotes seems like a number -- >> a number of people were outraged as anyone would be. the pastor is the real leader that failed. >> the pastor gets the wimp win for the day. but it's more than being a wimp. at this day and age you have to and up to bigotry and discrimination. >> put him on. >> he's earned it at least. >> the husband said if there were a time to step up and be christ like it was before the wedding, hindsight is 20/20. but they are married, good for them. >> we have to take a break, ahead on "starting point," a young woman gave us one of the most memorable olympic moments of all time. remember that? kerri strug being carried by her coach. she'll talk about the women's

gymnastics finals and the big shock that happened over the weekend. two top republicans are joining us live, why senators john mccain and kelly ai don't think ayottte are hitting the road together. >> your punching bag, i'm starting to think. [ feedback ] attention, well, everyone. you can now try snapshot from progressive free for 30 days. just plug this into your car, and your good driving can save you up to 30%. you could even try it without switching your insurance. why not give it a shot? carry on.

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welcome back to starting point, let's start with zoraida sambolin. good morning. >> good morning to you. free speech under attack in mexico. several masked armed men broke into the office of a newspaper and poured out gasoline and set the building on fire. the newspaper's website also says none of the 15 people working in the office were injured. the paper's offices were also attacked with grenades two weeks

ago. it is believed to be the work of drug cartels. >> after hours of clashes, syrian rebels overtake a military base on the outskirts of aleppo. the area has hotly contested with bloody battles raging for more than a week now. opposition groups say violence claimed another 114 lives in syria yesterday. at least 41 of them in the capital damascus and in its suburbs. in a cnn exclusive, defense secretary leon panetta had no nonsense comments on syria. >> i think if they continue this kind of tragic attack on their own people in aleppo, i think it will be a nail in assad's coffin. >> panetta spoke to bar bra

starr last night. panetta also told reporters israelis have not madeny decisions on attacking iran. peterson is accused of killing his third wife, kathleen savio and charged in her 2004 death after investigators exhumed her body and conducted a second autopsy. savio's death was unusually ruled an accident after her body was found in a bathtub. he is also a suspect in the disappearance of his fourth wife, stacy. michael jackson's personal physician is asking for a new round of testing on a piece of evidence that put him behind bars. conrad murray gave jackson a fatal dose of propofol mixed with lidocaine to ease of sting of the propofol as it entered jackson's vein. murray's lawyer says jackson gave himself the fatal dose of profol so there should be no traces of lidocaine in the

bottle. storms in store for the east coast and heat in the midwest. let's get a quick check on the weather. rob marciano joins us. >> the heat across the southern plains and lower mississippi valley, advisories up in a couple of areas of warnings as well. could see heat indexes over 110, dangerous heat and these numbers measured in the shade. 109 in joplin and 107 in topeka, these numbers up and offer 100 will probably last for three or four days. east of the mississippi, temperatures aren't quite as hot but the threat for afternoon thunderstorms is going to be with us popping up from time to time. temperatures are relatively cool in new york, 79 and 90 for the high in chicago. >> i guess that is relatively cool in chicago. brett favre returns to football again tuesday, this time as an aassistant high school coach in his hometown of

mississippi. he'll report to oak grove high school for practice. he retired from the nfl with most passing yards and tch touchdowns of all time. imagine telling your parents, guess who is coaching me. >> coach favre says i have to -- that would be the greatest thing, awesome. john mccain and kelly ayotte and lindsay graham will be high lying the pending defense cuts at the end of the year. the defense department budget could see $500 billion in cuts if congress and president obama don't act. the cuts of course are part of the budget control act which was passed last year to avoid a fiscal crisis. it slashed more than a trillion dollars from the budget split evenly between nondefense and defense programs. secretary of defense leon panetta has warned cuts to defense could be disastrous for the military. republican senators john mccain of arizona and kelly ayotte of

new hampshire are with me this morning. nice to see you both. senator mccain, let's start with you, if we can. $500 billion cut over the next ten years. you've had said that sequestration would be did he have vs tating. tell me why? >> on top of another 460 billion that is already being cut. second of all, it's the view of secretary panetta and our uniform leaders who have used words like devastating, impossible to carry out our national security, challenge, meet those security challenges in the most graphic terms they have used as to the effects of these cuts. and not to mention the job losses, over a million jobs that would be lost and the billions of dollars also in defense industry. so it's a very serious situation. congress should sit down,

republicans and democrats and work this out but we also need the president's leadership to call us together and avoid these cuts which again secretary panetta said would be devastating to national dense. >> when we look at the details of the military budget, $711 billion in 2011, five times the size of china's, almost ten times the size of russia and 11 times the size of britain and 11 times the size of france's. could you look at those numbers and say, senator ayotte the u.s. is at a line in terms in terms of spending. if there's going to be no tax increase to help pay for it, you have to cut somebody and this is what was agreed to? >> i want to put this in perspecti perspective, what we're spending on defense right now, 4.7% of our gdp, historical low given the conflicts we've been involved in. if you look at the history of the nation and also if we took

all of the defense spending, we wouldn't even get barely half of the deficits we've been running over the last several years. so defense spending can't address all of our debt and it's important for you to think about soledad, there many remain very many threats and hollowing out our force. we have to keep faith with our military, those who have served. we would have to cut the army an additional $100,000, marine corps has said that the marine corps would be unable to fully respond to one major contingency. this is very serious in terms of national security. >> senator mccain, where would you cut? let's say this number is a real number and this is what was the debate was about and everybody kicked the can down and now you're paying the piper if i can keep throwing in these phrases. but this is fair to say. you have to lose some money from the budget. where are you going to cut if you don't take it out of

defense? what would you recommend goes for $500 billion? >> well, first of all, when you look at increase in overall spending, obviously we could restrain that. i think as i mentioned, we've already cut $460 billion from the defense budget and i would point out that if we sat down together, we could look at loophole closing and spending cuts and look at freezes. we could look at all kinds of things. this super committee, came close to an agreement but we have to have everything on the table and yet our first and foremost responsibility and the president's first and foremost responsibility is commander in chief. so making sure that our nation is secure from a defense national security standpoint is the first priority. i don't think most people would argue with that. >> soledad, i want to put it in perspective, we could address

the dense and nondefense savings by living within our means for one month in this government. it's about one month of borrowing. we can find of savings across the government and do this in a more responsibility way and still address the deficit reduction. >> well but republicans at the same time don't want to cut taxes on the wealthy, we know that's a debate also heading towards the fiscal cliff. it seems like everybody wants to get to a number but no one is willing to cut the thing that is important to them. i think that's fair to say. no one wants to raise taxes on people they feel would support them politically. i think that's fair to say. it seems like tough choices have to be made. the budget control act which you voted against but senator mccain you voted for was to determine this very thing. now it's come to the moment of fruition and it seems like you're changing your mind, sir. >> well, first of all, i disagree with everyone of your

fundamentals here. the fact is that the president himself said raising taxes in difficult times on anybody is a terrible idea. he said that himself. if you think obviously you may, that raising taxes on quote the wealthy is the answer, then we have a fundamental disagreement. we are glad to look at loophole closings and ways for example selling off federal land which could raise billions of dollars but obviously, i do not accept the premise of your statement. i believe when raising taxes on anybody as the president once said would be a terrible idea, particularly when we see that the economy continues to weaken rather than strength. >> and soledad, to put it in perspective, here we've already cut nearly a half trillion dollars from the department of defense, we're not saying the defense can't take savings, but this is disproportionate, 19% of spending and it's a fundamental

responsibility we have to the american people. listen, i take secretary defense panetta at his word that this is going to be devastating. it seems to me we need to act on it. >> you're going to be hosting town halls to have this conversation. some people would say, maybe the question is, what's the strategy beyond the town halls? because at the end of the day it's not about the american people coming together to discuss this, right? it really is about congress sitting down and doing what they were trying to do not so long ago, which is to come to a decision on where cuts can be made jointly in a bipartisan fashion to get something done. >> you're exactly right and hopefully by what we're doing and this program and many others in these states that were so important, for examples 41,000 jobs here in the state of florida, that that will have -- make people motivate the members of congress and the president of the united states, the commander in chief to sit down and prevent

what every uniformed leader in the secretary of defense said would be devastating to america. >> also think about it in terms of jobs, 136,000 defense jobs in virginia. they have to issue layoff notices before the election so members of congress need to come together on this and i think more the american people know about this the more they'll urge their member of congress to resolve this and the president as commander in chief to lead the effort. >> we'll see what happens. thanks for talking with me and joining me this morning. i certainly appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> we have to take a short break. still ahead this morning, a stunning moemgt at the olympics, the reigning world champion jordyn wieber ends up not qualifying for the finals. we'll tell you what happened and we'll talk to a woman who knows a think about unbelievable moments, kerri strug of the magnificent seven. here's margaret's playlist all

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god i love that graphic of the olympics. how much have you been watching? >> i watched a lot. >> i switched the swimming last night. >> my kids up all night watching. team usa is second in the olympic medal count, right behind china. the game is filled with drama, a huge stunner in women's gym that

is that is tikz world only two per country rule she was cut from that all-around competition. kerri strug can relate to that. she missed the all-around competition herself. she is a two-time medalist, created one of the most iconic moments of all time when she landed on the vault with an injured ankle, won the gold for team usa. it turned out she had fractured that ankle ultimately. kerri is live from london. wow. we have so much to talk about. let's talk about the surprise of jordan wieber being out in the individual competition, the world channmpion herself. were you stunned by that? >> i think all of us were surprised and disappointed for jordan but it goes to show you the depth of team usa, the squad is phenomenal and ally edged her

out. it's disappointing. i know she will come back and still has a chance in individual dal as well on the floor exercise. >> we are certainly hoping so. in 1992 didn't a similar thing happen to you? you were edged out as well they were taking three and you placed fourth, right, and had the similar thing. were you just devastated? you had to be. >>s it is difficult when you have certain expectations for yourself. moving forward she has to focus on the team competition and what's left ahead and we're expecting great things. so honestly i'm here to encourage everybody to cheer on team usa by going to honors.com/supportthedream because for every good luck message posted there it will be streamlined to the usa here in

london. i know what it means to have that support behind you. >> it's margaret. great to see you. can you give us perspective on what happened with jurordan? she never has a bad day. she had this bag day. do you think the enthusiasm, the excitement of the games somehow got to her? >> well, you know, it's not like she had a major fall, a few bobbles here and there. she wasn't at the top of her game. she didn't have the performance of her life. the two per country rule leaves her out. it is disappointing and she has to deal with that mentally now. she is a phenomenal athlete and it goes to show you anything is

possible here at the games. the talent is phenomenal and so it's really important to stay focused on to be mentally tough because if you are not, just the little bit here, if you are a little bit off there and a bobble there it makes a big difference in the sport of gymnastics. >> let me ask you about ryan lochte, it's off the focus of the entire interview and is certainly not gymnastics about but what do you think of that? >> he has lovely teeth. that's a whole other thing. >> well, you know, each athlete has their thing. we're expecting wonderful things from him. he's exciting to watch and has a personality of his own. so whatever works for each athlete. i'm here to support all of them and root on team usa. i love the olympics, the movement, the various events

and, of course, watching our american flag being raised each time that we win a medal. >> kerri could be a diplomat with that answer. well done. i think she just had a baby, kerri strug, and she is a marathoner now so thanks for joining us. she could go right into the diplomatic circus with that. to each his own. thanks, kerri. we appreciate you joining us. >> go team usa. >> we agree. go team usa. my kids are going crazy with the olympics. they love it so much. we have to take a short break. how can we save these young people's lives? as a police chief, i have an opportunity to affect what happens in a major city. if you want to make a difference, you have to have the right education. university of phoenix opened the door. my name is james craig, i am committed to making a difference, and i am a phoenix. visit phoenix.edu to find the program that's right for you. enroll now.

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and welcome back, everybody. our start iing point this morni, mitt romney gets aggressive on his international tour. takes aim at iran. is he scoring points back at

home? who is to blame for the colorado movie theater massacre as suspected shooter james holmes heads to court this morning. there's word the mother of one of the victims is hiring a high-powered attorney and may be suing the theater. and former president bill clinton playing a major role in the democratic convention in charlotte. did he really bump vice president joe biden for the spot? it's monday, july 30th. "starting point" begins right now. ♪ oh, sometimes i g good feeling ♪ >> all good energy. >> i have to wait for lenny and 8:02 in the morning to get a little music. a little energy in the music. "good feeling." welcome. lenny curry, talking about the florida strategy as we get ready to head out to the rnc and dnc. margaret hoover is with us. ryan lizza for "the new yorker."

a profile of paul ryan called fuss budget we'll talk about tomorrow. our starting point this morning mitt romney is scheduled to land any second now in poland meeting with the country's prime minister and also poland's former president. it comes after a weekend in israel where he took a hard line stance on iran. he also explained comments by his senior foreign policy aide who suggested romney would support a military strike by israel against iran. here is what he said. >> we must not delude ourselves into thinking containment is an option. we must lead the effort to prevent iran from building and possessing nuclear weapons capability. we should employ any and all measures to dissuade them from their nuclear course. no option should be excluded. we recognize israel's right to to defend itself and that it is right for america to stand with you. >> romney's trailing president obama in the polls which asked which candidate would handle

foreign policy better. a former u.s. ambassador to the united nations, also foreign policy adviser for mitt romney's campaign. nice to see you, sir. thanks for talking with us. what do you expect -- >> thank you, good morning. >> thank you. -- mitt romney to get, to learn in poland today on this trip? >> well, foreign policy is important as this election will be about the failure of the president on the economy. but governor romney now for seven days gave a major speech at the vfw and now he wants to reaffirm that one of the pillars of our foreign policy has to be working closely with our friends and coordinating diplomacy. in poland which feels the rug was pulled out on them on the missile defense, he will reaffirm his commitment to missile defense. he will reaffirm the importance of working closely with our allies. and he will discuss the need to support the freedom agenda and

human rights. >> so when it comes to his strategy overall, is he really playing for a home audience? i mean, when you talk to michael hanley which they did at the national journal, he looks at governor romney's trip as an odd itinerary and that he is playing, quote, naked electoral politics courting ethnic, catholic and jewish voters back home is the strategy of the trip. >> no, i think the vat strategy to lay out the governor's vision of foreign policy which begins with a recognition and embracing of american exceptionalism. two, that we have to be aggressive and show american leadership. we should lead from the front not behind. that's better for the united states and the world. three, that we work closely with our allies and, finally, that peace through strength.

governor romney is of the tradition of president harry truman, john kennedy, ronald reagan where president obama is in a different view and closer to jimmy carter. that contrast is important for the american people to understand even as their first priority is to get the economy moving, something that president obama has failed at. a as i'm sure you are aware, gibbs said the trip so far -- he was speaking specifically about the london portion of it -- had been embarrassing for our country. that's a quote. here is what he said, play a little bit. >> i think it's clear that voters in this country wonder allowed whether mitt romney's ready for the world, and i think the world is not yet ready for mitt romney. i think there's literally to go overseas, in the country of our strongest ally in the olympics that they have been preparing years for and question whether or not they are ready does make you wobder whether or not he is ready to be commander in chief.

>> do you think the london portion of this has been at the very least from a pr perspective a bit of a mess, a disaster and full of gas? >> no, look, governor romney saved the olympics in utah that was troubled by scandal, organization, et cetera. he came in and saved that olympics. it was a great success. he has been deeply involved in the olympic moment. he wanted to be in london for the opening ceremony. i think the american people share governor romney's commitment to the olympic spirit. they appreciate his leadership with the olympics. and he answered that question more as a former olympic organizer. what was important substantively and i understand mr. gibbs wants to avert and distract, but what was important in london is that governor romney had substantive important meetings for the prime minister cameron and he had the

chance to reaffirm the importance of working with our allies and coordinating diplomacy, et cetera. in israel he had to talk about iran where president obama's failed. whatever his strategy's been, no one contests that for three and a half years we're not closer to nuclear breakout in iran which threatens our friends in the region, israel and others, and threatens the united states and governor romney had an opportunity to show his contrasting vision and approach which would be iran looking for stronger sanctions, et cetera. >> what would he do differently? already you see the obama administration has put sanctions in place and has increased some of those sanctions. they both have said that they will be aggressive. everything is on the table. we know that the obama campaign -- the obama administration has tipped off, we are told from a national security adviser, informed israel that there is a

contingency plan to attack iran should diplomacy fail. what would a president romney do with iran? >> look, let's look after the last 3 1/2 years. president obama's policies have failed. that's irrefutable. iran is much closer to nuclear breakout. they have more centrifuges moving. their ballistic missiles are better. whatever has been followed by president obama has not worked. that's something that prime minister benjamin netanyahu noted yesterday. why? they sought engagement as opposed to drawing red lines against suspending all enrichment. >> so what would governor romney do if he were president? >> excuse me, soledad, but he -- they talk about their sanctions. they wrap themselves around the sanctions as being so strong. the sanctions they oppose

senator menn eendez in the sena. he would have crushing, strong sanctions. two, he would draw the red line on any suspension, total suspension of enrichment, and he would make clear as he did yesterday that the military option is on the table. no one in the region, whether tehran, jerusalem, or elsewhere, has confidence that the obama administration is willing ultimately to use force to stop the mullahs in iran, the ones that have said they want to wipe israel off the face of the earth from getting a nuclear weapon. it's just the facts. >> you are saying governor romney would be willing to bomb iran if, in fact, they crossed that red line? >> what he has said is we should have a credible military force. soledad, bismarck said over a century ago that did i mroploma

without force is like music without instruments. it just doesn't work. the obama policies have not worked. we coordinate more closely with our allies including israel and we would support efforts for tougher sanctions. this administration gave a waiver for china. so on oil they don't help keep more pressure on iran and they have more chinese workers in iran trying to get more oil out of the ground that helps the regime stay in power. >> but both the obama administration -- >> much more resolute -- >> forgive me for interrupting but they have talked about sanctions, many people talk about sanctions, right, and it sounds to me like you are saying the military option has to be a believable threat, right? if it's not believable, then nobody really works toward what they are expected to do because they don't believe that the military option is going to come to fruition. so are you telling me that governor romney would be willing to bomb iran it looks like

they're getting nuclear weapons? that they would whether it's with or without israel bomb iran to end that -- they cross the red line, bomb iran? >> i'm saying two things. first, on the sanctions, it's not just talking abstractly about sanctions. this administration has allowed moscow and beijing to determine what sanctions we can put in force. governor romney has made clear he's going to put tough sanctions in force for the coalition and not play mother may i. second, that tehran should know governor romney is committed to work everything possible diplomatically to avoid having to use force. but if it gets to nuclear breakout, military options are on the table and have to be seriously considered. >> all right. seriously considered i guess is as far as we're going to go on that. the romney campaign advise aror. nice to see you and appreciate

your time this morning. we have other stories making news. zoraida has that. james holmes accuis expecteo face formal charges in the case. no word yet as to whether prosecutors will seek the death penalty n. a few minutes, remembering the victims of the colorado movie theater massacre including 32-year-old rebecca wygal. shirley wygal will join soledad live. people chanting, tell the truth, during a protest over recent police shootings in anaheim, california. police say they arrested two people when a peaceful protest start started to turn yesterday. the demonstrations follow the fatal shootings of two men this month by police. and the web is about buzzing about the mystery woman who crashed the olympics opening ceremonies. take a look at this a. woman in a red sweater near the front of the indian delegation during the parade of nations on friday

night. she is not an athlete. an olympic organizer says she was a member of the opening ceremony cast who perhaps got slightly overexcited. i guess if you're going to crash the party, wear the same color. >> she's not dressed at all appropriately. i think she has like blue slacks on. >> and how does that happen, you know, when security is all around. >> she is a volunteer. >> i know but -- >> they walk into the stadium and instead of stopping and letting everyone walk in, she kept going. what i love the most, look at her face. she is so happy. so thrilled. so proud of the indian olympic team. >> she is the most famous person. >> she has more spotlight. >> there's no embarrassment that she is out there. >> the mary poppins people. >> or the children dancing on

the beds. right now at the olympics the medal count is china leading with 12 medals. the u.s. behind in second place with 11 medals. italy in third place. let's get to zain verjee. last night the u.s. men's swim team had a lead and then didn't really the 4x100. what happened? >> reporter: yeah, yeah. it was a total disaster. the u.s. team was so shocked and basically say iing why? because the french team took their revenge team because france lost to the u.s. in 2008 but the u.s. was winning the whole time and then ryan lochte was swimming the final leg and in the last 50 meters or so was, boom, overtaken by the french who then touched the wall first to win. really disappointing for the u.s. team. and ryan lochte wasn't even supposed to be in the relay and then they put him in last minute and changed the eam. so there are a lot of questions

about why and what happened. >> what do you think is the thing to focus on today? what would you be watching today? >> reporter: today ryan lochte again in the pool. the aquatics centre is behind me. michael phelps will swim the 200-meter semifinal for butterfly. soledad, that's his thing. he has -- he's going to be defending his title for that. also, you want to look out for missy franklin swimming the 100 meter backstroke and the 200 meter freestyle. one piece of good news everyone in the u.s. should be celebrating is dana vollmer won the 100 meter butterfly. not only did she win it, she broke the world record at 55.98 seconds. she won and even though her swim cap went off her head the last 50 meters she got there first. >> that was great to see. thanks, zain. we'll keep checking in with you as you get to be there and we watch it from here. no jealousy at all.

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university of phoenix opened the door. my name is james craig, i am committed to making a difference, and i am a phoenix. visit phoenix.edu to find the program that's right for you. enroll now. welcome back to "starting point." in about three hours the suspected colorado movie theater gunman, james holmes, will amir in court. he's set to face formal charges in the rampage which killed 12 people, injured 58 others. the aurora community continues to hohn aror the victims of the tragedy this week. one was 32-year-old rebecca w wygal. she was mentioned by president obama in a speech last week. >> rebecca wygal, 32 years old, a veteran of the air force, fluent in chinese, served as a translator, a mother whose life will be an inspiration to her

two little girls. >> shirley wygal is rebecca's mother. thanks for talking with us. our condolences for you and your family. especially knowing now what we've been reading about your daughter, how compassionate and passi passionate she was. tell me a little bit more about her. >> well, she was all those things, and she was -- she was just bright. she was intelligent. she was happy. she cared about people. she was just a bright spot everywhere that she went. >> she has two little girls. i know the oldest is nine and the youngest is five. how much do they against about what happened and where their mom is. >> it's funny. i haven't read or watched anything uil last night and i

finally went online and read a few things. there's a sty out about the oldest one falling to the floor and railing against god and, you know, i never saw any of that actually. on friday when we were pretty sure -- before we got official notice but, anyway, pulled up to the house there and the two girls came running out to the car and the youngest one propped her arms up on the passenger window and said, mommy's dead. and she's how she handled it. the oldest one said, yeah, she was killed in the theater. and i said, i know, baby. and then they went back to playing this the yard which arding to the child psychologist is what they should be doing. so from what i've seen, they are behaving exactly as would be expected. they don't understand. >> they're so little they don't quite get it yet. >> cameras will not be allowed in the courtroom although i'm told the family members are

allowed to go. is that something that you are going to attend, that you want to face the suspect in court? >> well, i absolutely want to face the suspect in court. he looked my daughter in the eye and shot her and killed her. and i want to look him in the eye for her, and i'll be there until he's sentenced and beyond depending on what happens. i'm glad he's here to stand trial. i want to see justice done and i want to see it with my own eyes, and i will be there with my family. >> i read a report you have now hired an attorney, and also that pab you are going to think about suing the movie theater. is that accurate? >> well, i hired an attorney because i don't know what to do.

i'm not an attorney. and so i hired an attorney for advice and counsel. there are a lot of things coming up with the death of a loved one that have to be handled and i'm not equipped or trained to do that. now as far as liability, i don't know. i have a lot of unanswered questions. >> like what? what do you want to know? >> well, you know, i'll go back it to the friday when we got official notification after 10:00 at night they came to robert's house and we all sat together and they told us. and they asked the children -- our advocate asked the children if they had any questions and at first no one asked anything and i said, do you have any questions for her and she said, yes, how did he get in there? and of course there's no answer coming -- forthcoming, so she asked that question two or three times and, you know, i think she

deserves an answer to that question. i haven't been given an answer to that question. the police haven't talked to me about what happened in the theater, no one has come and told me what happened. >> you want to know for first and foremost. >> i would like to know. >> shirley wygal, the mother of rebecca wingo. we appreciate your time and we wi be allowed to have our cameras in the courtroom today but we will be attending as well as we continue to follow what happens in this case. thanks for talking with us. we appreciate it. >> thank you very much. >> you bet. powerful collaboratin is backed by an equally powerful and secure cloud. that cloud is in the network, so it can deliver all the power of the network itself. bringing people together to develop the best ideas -- and providing the apps and computing power to make new ideas real. it's the cloud from at&t. with new ways to work together, business works better. ♪

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i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. welcome back to "starting point." minding your business this morning, u.s. markets deflating after the big rally. the dow s&p is futures are trading slightly lower.

nasdaq futures are up a bit. everyone will be watching the federal reserve and the european central bank this week hoping they will announce some form of economic stimulus. hyundai is recalling 200,000 santa fe suvs over air bag problems. in the 2007 to 2009 model year santa fes, the passenger air bag may not deploy properly and the 2012 and 2013 the curtain side air bags may deflate for no apparent reason. imagine that as you're driving. >> ma would be a bad thing. our tough call this morning, of course we're talking defense cuts. $500 billion on the table which across the board many people on both sides of the aisle say devastating but, of course, the reason those defense cuts exist as they are now is because the super committee failed to do their job. congress also failed to do its

job in coming up with reasonable cuts so we are where we are. >> it's incredible. you have the issue of what's going to happen with the cuts and what do these cuts mean to the military? and we've seen cuts along visible proportions. you see cuts along this scale after vietnam, after the korean war, after the cold war. the difference this time is that these are following previous cuts always followed a major buildup in the military. we haven't had a military buildup for almost two or three decades. >> so it's cutting to the bone. >> it might create -- lee yob panetta said a who will owing out of the litary. there's nowhere to cut in a massive way. >> everyone agrees these cuts are bad. done in the way they're done and the whole point was not for them to be wide cuts. they would have put a gun to congress' head and said if you don't come up with an agreement, some really bad things are going to happen. i think what's disappointing about the interview you did with senators mccain and hatt they

are still locked into their positions. you can't get republicans to say, yes, these cuts are so bad, the pentagon will be so devastated, yes, we will even agree to raise revenue if that was part of the solution. >> raising revenue, republicans are never going to say, yes, let's raise revenue. >> hold on. if we go back to when president obama took office and had the house and the senate, he had the opportunity then to do what he thought was necessary to get our deficit under control and our economy under control. he chose not to do that. this whole discussion about the tax bush cuts and those making over $250,000 a year are the obama tax cuts. he signed these. he owns those. the people he call millionaires and billionaires making over $250,000, he was okay with that two years ago. >> what's more interesting, i think, you have the town senators, ayotte and mccain doing these town halls to drum up popular support because, why? they want to change the law because they don't want the law

congress put in place -- >> they are part of the congress. that would be fine except they're the ones, right, who supported that, mccain certainly. he voted for it. and i think a town hall with the american people is a way to get buzz. people are going to be up in arms. they're going to be angry as opposed to congress sitting down and having a conversation and working it out. they don't need the american people to weigh in. they need to go back to their respective chairs. >> i think there's some educational component trying to get people to understand the issue. i don't criticize them too much for going out and telling people what's coming. one other -- i can't help but point out the main arguments senator mccain made was that all of this government spending that will be cut creates thousands and thousands of jobs. sometimes the government has to

spend more. how is it that when you spend money on the pentagon it creates jobs but no other type creates jobs. >> politics. i can explain it to you. politics 101. >> particularly in florida. >> we can continue to discuss this in the commercial break as we've been doing all morning. president obama and former president bill clinton haven't always agreed on policy for politics. former president clinton will be front and center. we'll get some details of his role straight ahead. plus the battle over the bush tax cuts. will head to the house this week. will that be a dead end with the deadline that's still looming? we'll ask the man who kicked off the debate or will be kicking off the debate straight ahead. d extra strength bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 95% of people who tried it agreed that it relieved their headache fast.

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welcome back to "starting point." lawmakers on capitol hill debating this week how to handle the bush-era tax cuts. two competing plans had one major difference. democrats support a version that extends the tax cuts for individuals up to their first $200,000 in yearly income. narrowly passed the senate last week. republicans want the cuts extended for all americans, no questions asked. joseph crowley of new york sits on the house ways and means committee. will introduce the house version of the senate's bill. nice to ste you. >> thank you, soledad. >> the senate version basically passed along party lines which

means what in the house? >> well, i had a couple of republican supporters as well. it's sending a message to the lead leadership of the republican party that if you are serious about getting a tax bill through before the end of the year, here are the pa rrameters and it's along the lines of what the president has been asking for that the wealthiest 2% among us pay a bit more to secure the country, make sure that we are able to pay our bills, make sure we are at a point we know that our deficit is growing exponentially so. if we don't pass this bill, we'll see an increase. if the republican pass were to pass and become law an increase in $50 billion to our deficit. we can't afford that. >> so when you -- if this were to fail, right, democrats extend all the cuts or let them all expire? >> i believe that right now what we're looking for is compromise. we're hoping our republican

colleagues will come in. right now if we passed the bill, if you are a sergeant in the military serving overseas in afghanistan, you have a wife and children back state side, you will see a $400 increase in your taxes if the republican bill would become law. that's unacceptable for the middle class and working americans. we need to pass a bill. >> in terms of rebalancing the budget, you talk about tax cuts and raising taxes, but you are also talking about a balanced approach and you're on the social security subcommittee. do you believe that entitlement spending can get reformed? >> i think what you have to do, first of all, i don't think democrats will negotiate amongst ourselves. what we're looking for is rational people to come together, to talk about what is possible for america. the social security system is created because 40% 0 of the people in this country were dying in an utter state of poverty. couldn't bury themselves. and we look it at the advancements we made with social security in place and what it's meant to so many americans and

what it will mean for years to come. social security is a jewel of this country, must be preserved and maintained. >> maintained and reformed in order to be able to serve future generations. >> i think we all have 0 to look at the options that we have before us. what is most important is that we right now look out for the middle class in this country. my republican colleagues are not doing that. it has been the democratic party that has stood for working class people and men and women. >> one question about this, the deficit -- we have such a huge deficit and the democrats want to raise taxes on the wealthiest americans. it's not going to do enough to cover the deficit. why won't -- considering the size of the crisis -- why -- you can't just continue to raise taxes on one segment of the nation. why wouldn't you broaden that out and let the tax cuts expire for everyone and say to even middle class voters, your taxes have to work, too. >> i think in a very difficult time, there's no question we are

having difficult times for working men and women. this is not the time to be raising taxes on them. i think there may be an opportunity down the road where things are better, people are earning more, feel better about their own situation. right now is not that time. >> down the road willing to raise even the middle class tax cuts. >> most americans who are rational about this, we have to keep our options open. what's most important is we have our fiscal house in order. we need to do it in a ration at way, one that protects the people in the kun are try struggling so hard to maintain a living. >> congressman, back in '09 president obama said we shouldn't be raising taxes on anybody in a recession and he, in fact, signed the extension of the tax cuts. back then did he consider those people making over $250,000 wealthy? what's changed since 2009? is it because we're in a campaign? >> i think the president has consistently said the $250,000 threshold is where he would like to begin this discussion. >> he did that years ago. >> i don't agree with you.

i heard you in your earlier segment. you need 60 votes to get anything done. >> we had both houses. >> well, we barely had that and we understand that history. the reality is that if the republican bill would ha passed today, we'd be giving $160,000 tax cuts to millionaires. i don't think that makes any sense in this economy or any economy, quite frankly. to be a millionaire in this country, the great eest country the world has known, it's a privile privilege. and i think most people get that. unfortunately, those kcountries you have to pick the right side. here it doesn't matter. you can be green, purple, red or bl blue. democrat or republican. you work hard, you get ahead, make a living and make it a better kcountry. >> nice to see you, sir. thank you for coming in and talking to us. still ahead this morning, a new prime time role at the democratic convention for former president bill clinton. why is the campaign putting him

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welcome back to "starting point." topic to be announced today is bill clinton's role it at the upcoming democratic convention. supposedly very prominent role. possibly booting the vice president out of the way. i wouldn't be surprised by that. i don't think necessarily the vice president is known for being a dramatic speaker. and, also, there has been some tension between the former president and the current

president, and i think that a tough election psycycle could h all wounds. >> they have not had a good relati relationship, obama and clinton. in the next week you'll see a lot on how this relationship is so much better than people have reported. details about phone calls they've had. i guarantee it. it's not that they had a bad relationship which is crazy. if you're a democratic president you want to rely on the advice of the last democratic president, but obama's argument, if you watch obama closely from 2004 up to 2008, was generational. it was this new face. and a lot of the argument in the primaries when he was running against hillary clinton was it's not the bush era needs to put that behind us, we need to put the bush/clinton era. >> you'd better hope he has let that go. >> it's interesting. it tells you the trouble president obama is in. this is not our parents' party.

obama wants to take us back to the clinton era. >> which was a great era. i think he wishes people would make that connection. isn't that the point? >> he's trying to fool us. >> fiscally that was a great time. >> so great an era -- >> he's going to be highlighted by george bush won't even be there. >> he has core constituencies that had softened, that lacked the enthusiasm president obama had in 2008. millennials, the kids, 70% of them like bill clinton. african-americans, 89% of them like bill clinton. republicans even like bill clinton. 40% of them. these are key constituencies that will drum up the base and soften independents that president obama needs. >> can a speech really deliver that? you list all those statistics. can even a really fabulous speech -- can it really -- >> pay close attention to this stuff and i remember bill clinton's speech at the 2004 convention which -- the two best speeches were bill clinton and

barack obama. >> that speech made barack obama. a speech well delivered on a national platform can make a candidate. >> but can it make another candidate? that is the big question. >> we're going to make sure people know that is not the democratic party today, the bill clinton era is gone. >> i love this clinton nostalgia from republicans. when did you start loving bill clinton so much? >> we have to take a break. do we even need algebra? we'll bring steve perry in. should math teachers quit teaching algebra? it's the price. >>what? >>sorry. he wants you to know about priceline's new express deals. it's a faster way to get a great hotel deal without bidding. pick one with a pool, a gym, a great guest rating. >>and save big. >>thanks negotiator. wherever you are. ya, no. he's over here.

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every single day high school and college students struggle

through algebra questions like this. actually, that is not college, that is not even high school, that is probably, i would say, middle school. i believe i'm working on this right now with my daughter. many american students can't answer that question. two-thirds of eighth graders are below proficiency according to the national assessment of education progress. is algebra even necessary? it's a question posed in "the new york times" op-ed written by a professor who says we're purting kids by forcing them to take algebra. steve perry is with us. he's an education contributor. i have a good idea where you are going to come down on this. i hope i do. i don't know anything about you if you don't agree with me on this. should we bother to teach algebra? and i think your answer is going to be absolutely yes. am i wrong? >> i think it's important we do ask the question if we're teaching the things that are necessary in modern education. the issue is not whether or not

we should teach algebra, it's whether or not the people who are teaching the algebra have the effectiveness necessary for children to learn? the biggest question i find when i interview for math positions is to find a great math teacher. we interviewed a teacher i asked to teach me something, anything, she taught me how to factor a number. she did it wrong in the interthe view. the problem, soledad, she was the best person i interviewed up to that point for a math position. the issue is not whether or not we should teach algebra. >> the argument in this op-ed written by andrew hacker, he says to the nation's shame there is a ll taken by studying mathematics that he seems to argue it makes kids who are not able -- who struggle -- more like likely to drop out. that there's not the necessarily a correlation to learning algebra and whatever job you are going to do at the end which would require, possibly, some math. so why bother to do it at all? >> i don't know there's a causal relationship between failing

algebra but i know for many children especially those of color it does present a real barrier. and in many cases there are some practical barriers because too few of them end up taking the requisite number of path courses in order to get into a four-year college. they find themselves where they have to take a course which is a noncredit bearing course that in many cases they fail so that in many cases it is true. i don't know if it's causal but algebra is a gatekeeper. i don't know that it's necessary for every single child. i don't. one of the things i find we have is that we spend too much time with a one size fits all academic experience. we need to have more compelling experiences that children are more connected to. not just the rigor. it's also the relationship and the relevance. >> i'm not sure he agrees with me. >> steve, so what some people are saying is, if there is no direct use in your professional life with algebra, then why

bother studying it -- >> how do you know what your professional life is when you're a teenager? >> isn't there a benefit from the thought process learning algebra whether you will use it in your professional life to balance your checkbook or become an artist, isn't there a benefit to learn the thought process in critical thinking? >> then why stop at algebra. keep throwing subjects at kids. what i think we need to ask ourselves the question, here it is 2012. why are we teaching the same things the way we've always taught them? there has to be a level of creativity. it's not whether or not we teach algebra. we teach it at capital prep because it's required, because we know the colleges expect it. we know the state examinations measure it. we do teach it and the s.a.t. and the act measure it. however -- however -- it is important for us as a nation to be more honest with ourselves and ask the question is what we're teaching the best way to ensure we pull out the best from

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